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  • #16
    Originally posted by Vitriol View Post
    Again... why do you assume Alex can ONLY make money via Paypal or whatever?
    Again, why do you insist on making this ALL about Alex? How many more examples do you need besides the ones currently on offer before you stop obsessing on Alex and recognize this as a systemic problem affecting more than just one loudmouthed blowhard?


    Originally posted by Vitriol View Post
    What's so special about Alex...
    Indeed. See above.


    Originally posted by Vitriol View Post
    Are you arguing we should regard Paypal, Facebook, Twitter, etc. as public utilities and fold them into the already bloated government bureaucratic morass?
    I am arguing that a financial institution should enjoy no more right to decide who it does business with than your local telephone company does. I am of the opinion (and this would seem to be echoed in the ideals of your founding fathers) that all people should enjoy equal right to pursue life, liberty and happiness without undue repression from government or its associated agencies... and that includes large organizations that trade their influence with that of political figures, effectively making them associated agencies of the government.


    Originally posted by Vitriol View Post
    Either they are private entities...
    They aren't. Paypal happens to be part of a cartel of Silicon Valley corporatists working in concert to extend their sphere of influence into the realm of governing the people who are by an large rolling over like sheep to take it up the arse like pigs. Whether that is redressed by rendering it a public utility or drafting some kind of an internet bill of rights to rein them in, I don't care. What I do know is that unless something isn't done about this, neither your constitution or mine will be worth the parchment our respective governments happily extend for them to wipe their arses on.


    Originally posted by Vitriol View Post
    You're starting to sound like a champion for socialism. Lulz
    And yet the exact same arguments that have you catcalling the socialism epithet my way are the ones that have others screaming "nazi" at me. When are you partisan clowns going to get it into your thick heads that neither tags really apply?


    Or are you already aware of this and simply dog whistling to an angry mob to shout your opponent down? Yes, that seems more likely. Christ, here we are two pages in and you're STILL trying to drag this off topic into the social media realm.


    Comment


    • #17
      Paypal facilitates payments. It's not a banking institution itself. It's a glorified app.

      Alex keeps being referenced because it's his situation exactly that you're complaining about... why not use a perfect example?

      Basically all I'm saying is whether or not the current rules and practices are sufficient is a separate issue from whether or not they're being followed as written.
      Lobby for change, by all means. I suspect we may even find some common ground here and there in that endeavor.
      But to say what Alex Jones has experienced is somehow unacceptable or even unusual is false. Maybe Jones was the straw that broke your back but he was hardly the first or only.

      Whatever your intentions or goals it looks, on the outside, to be ire at a "conservative" personality being treated "unfairly".
      My response, and I don't know why it would surprise anyone, was: "Yeah that shit happens".

      If Paypal, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, etc. are bad actors maybe people should vote with their wallets and support alternatives.
      That's what we as consumers do when corporations show themselves to be unworthy of our money.
      Instead of howling for new regulations or the dismantling of any regulations with which you disagree just starve the beast itself.
      "He's not evil; he's just a bit rude." -Graeme

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Vitriol View Post
        Paypal facilitates payments. It's not a banking institution itself. It's a glorified app.
        Are you being deliberately dense? It facilitates the transfer of money from consumers to providers, one of the services provided for BY A BANK. The process is not instantaneous, the process can take days and sometimes even weeks to accomplish, during which time the money being transferred is held in trust... JUST LIKE A BANK. That is it's SOLE FUNCTION FOR EXISTENCE, it is not a platform for content, its ONE JOB is to facilitate the transference of of money. It is by definition a a FINANCIAL INSTITUTION... and one which by all accounts is not doing its job properly.


        Bearing in mind of course that Paypal does not by any stretch of the imagination enjoy the kinds of stranglehold over e-commerce that Apple and Google do over the distribution of apps, but they certainly are hegemonic. They're pretty much the first name anyone thinks of when it comes to that sort of service on the internet, more so than any bank you might care to name. All the more reason to hold them to a standard that forbids the kinds of fuckery they've been pushing the boundaries of, especially in recent times, along with keeping an eye on the relative minnows that fulfil similar purpose on the web... and for that matter their brick and mortar counterparts.


        Because if your bank decided tomorrow that it wasn't going to process your weekly income, you would certainly have something to say about it. You'd have a whole lot more so say about it if you said "fuck it then, I'll take my business elsewhere", only to find door after door slamming in your face. And in spite of your obvious shortcomings when it comes to defending others rights to such a service being made available to them, my voice would be lent in defense of your cause. The only time you would find me saying "serves you right, fuck you" would be if you were caught using that service for nefarious, if not outright criminal activity. People have a right to earn a quid after all, and if you deprive them of that right you are setting up a situation where they are compelled to break the law to make up the shortfall.


        Are you by your stance advocating for an increase in criminal activity? It sure seems like it.


        Originally posted by Vitriol View Post
        Alex keeps being referenced because it's his situation exactly that you're complaining about... why not use a perfect example?
        Why not use several? It isn't as if he's the only one it's happened to. I mentioned PewDiePie too, but I don't see you bandying his name about. There's also the case of Storm Front getting chased out of both payment processors and hosts, I don't see you referencing them either. Neither were actually breaking any laws, but both nonetheless found themselves brigaded by yellow journalism and pressure from the mob brought to bear against pretty much anyone who was still prepared to do business with them. Off the top of my head I cannot for the life of me remember if that was part of the impetus used to get gab.ai's processing payments suspended and locked out of its domain registrar, I seem to recall however that was a separate case altogether, again because they weren't providing the same sorts of heavy handed moderation on their userbase. There's a list of content creators as long as your arm who have run foul, not only of paypal, but of groups like Patreon and Hatreon and quite a few of those under less than auspicious circumstances... and yet you still keep pushing the Alex Jones angle.


        Along with insisting that it's his situation I'm complaining about, in spite of being repeatedly told that I'm more concerned about the precedent that is being set and which can be applied to anyone and everyone.


        Originally posted by Vitriol View Post
        Basically all I'm saying is whether or not the current rules and practices are sufficient is a separate issue from whether or not they're being followed as written.
        Lobby for change, by all means. I suspect we may even find some common ground here and there in that endeavor.
        But to say what Alex Jones has experienced is somehow unacceptable or even unusual is false. Maybe Jones was the straw that broke your back but he was hardly the first or only.

        Whatever your intentions or goals it looks, on the outside, to be ire at a "conservative" personality being treated "unfairly".
        My response, and I don't know why it would surprise anyone, was: "Yeah that shit happens".
        So what are you doing about it? Oh yeah, that's right... dismissing it as not worthy of effort. “Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”


        Meanwhile, I've been pointing out the inequities of financial arrangements for decades, irrespective of the political bent of those who find themselves on the wrong end of the stick. Because it does not matter the politican persuasion of the individual affected by this sort of shit, it is still (a) wrong and (b) nearly always applied to someone else down the line with the excuse of "well, we got away with it here and everyone was fine with it". This current rash of fuckery just happens to be a little more blatant and obvious than most previous examples, there is also a bit more at stake because - get this (and do forgive me for pre-empting my next quote of you) - people have been voting with their wallets and leaving the beast of corporate media to starve itself, necessitating the constant misrepresentaion of online figures as "alt-right nazi troublemakers" no matter what their actual political views might be and the systemic abuse of these latter day journalists and commentators along with anyone who might comment a little too openly on the process.


        It so happens that removal of the ability of these people to operate within the financial framework online is part and parcel of this. I've noted this was going on, rang the bell on it a number of times because I can see an eventuality where it gets extended beyond the sphere of those most visibly being affected by it presently and am more than a little offended to find someone so tolerant of where it is ultimately headed as I have found in you personally. "Ahhh, vote with your wallet, support alternatives" you say as you squat, toad-like in your rented allotment, happily feeding off the scraps tossed you and occasionally calling your landlord a cunt and grumbling about his maybe-possible impeachment on a trumped up charge which even he hasn't seen the evidence against him for, much less anyone else. Fact is, people have attempted to vote with their wallets, heroic efforts to be sure and all too often fruitless in your protectionalist UNcapitalistic society where competition is either bought up, shut down or both while the disingenuous calls for dissatisfied customers to go elsewhere continue to roll in from worms like you.


        Perhaps I should illustrate my point with a dissertation on the state of your ISP network in my next thread.


        Originally posted by Vitriol View Post
        If Paypal, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, etc. are bad actors maybe people should vote with their wallets and support alternatives.
        That's what we as consumers do when corporations show themselves to be unworthy of our money.
        Instead of howling for new regulations or the dismantling of any regulations with which you disagree just starve the beast itself.
        Which is arguably why history continues to repeat itself. By your arguments your founding fathers ought to have imported the same rules and regulations they fled in the first place instead of "howling" for new regulations and dismantling the ones they disagreed with, also that the US constitution itself ought never have been amended with the basic ten that make up the bill of rights.


        But then you have been known to LARP as an online knight of the realm, so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. You're a fucking tool, you know that?


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        • #19
          If you want me to feel bad about someone being mistreated on the internet you'll have to do better than Stormfront or some guy(?) I've never heard of.
          At least I actually know what Jones' deal is and while I think he's a nutter to my knowledge he's not a literal nazi.

          As far as I'm concerned racism, bigotry, and other abhorrent ideologies are like religions: if you want to believe in them that's your personal malfunction so don't expect me to condone or facilitate it.
          "He's not evil; he's just a bit rude." -Graeme

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Vitriol View Post
            If you want me to feel bad about someone being mistreated on the internet you'll have to do better than Stormfront or some guy(?) I've never heard of.
            If you want me to keep discussing this topic with you, you'll have to do better than pretend I ever wanted you to feel bad about someone being mistreated on the internet, Feral.


            Originally posted by Vitriol View Post
            At least I actually know what Jones' deal is.
            Yeah, you're a big Aqua fan I can tell, jonesing for Jones cause it's all you know. Too bad you don't know enough to see how it affects anyone else, yourself in particular.


            Tell you what I'm gonna do; I'm gonna vote with my mouse and head on over into Agni for a bit. A lively debate on the topic is to be had there. moreover it is one where pretty much everyone present has managed to go multiple comments without obsessing over how it has affected your favourite fat slob. Point of fact, those discussing it there are, unlike yourself, principally concerned with what it means in relation to the e-commerce in-world, given that Paypal is one of two ways of interacting financially with it, the other "more direct" method of dealing directly with the company running the grid so onerous and fucked up for some (Europeans particularly) that many content generators there are wondering whether they shouldn't fold their tents and get while the getting's good (relatively speaking).


            And guess what? There's NO option to "vote with your wallet" in that arena. That option was lost years ago.


            And no, I don't expect you to "feel bad about it"; I'm under no illusion as to your inherent self-centered approach to the world about you... but know this; I've spent a good quarter of a century drawing parallels between online and real world scenarios. It amuses me to do so, and I've become quite good at it. IRC... Flametown... Agni... these mini-microcosms when studied show startling similarities to situations that play out on a larger stage. So...


            Heh, who am I kidding? You wouldn't realize the significance of that statement until you were personally neckbeard deep in it.


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            • #21
              That is just one of the many new bomb collars we're allowing them to put on us

              Right now, we're pretty much on this level. We're part or a system we don't like, but what can we do about it?

              We lost our abilities to live independently long ago.

              We're acting like locusts and our corn field is giving up. And there's nowhere else to go

              And while we're discussing the sex of the angels, our downfall is being prepared. And right now, we're a castle of cards and all they need to do is remove one or two

              Only way to turn things around would be a change in culture and habits that would be unprecedented in this world

              And it will never happen. We'll just keep riding this bitch dry. Until the bitter end.

              Comment


              • #22
                Have fun in Agni. Maybe if you enjoy yourself enough you might be capable of holding up your end of a conversation without degenerating into ad hominem and histrionics.

                Heh, who am I kidding? That's your entire persona. Innit.
                "He's not evil; he's just a bit rude." -Graeme

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                • #23
                  What can I say, I've never suffered fools gladly, no matter how good they are at sucking cock.


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                  • #24
                    Using Facebook, Twitter, or Paypal is not a right.

                    No one is entitled to the use of these online services and everyone is responsible for their own personal conduct. While hate speech is protected in this country, slander and libel are not. Prohibiting the use of these services due to violations of policies and TOS is reasonable.

                    To make a slippery slope argument regarding these services would require that the basis for denial of service were because of things like race, religion, or politics. One would probably also have to show that there is a trend that certain groups of people are being denied services due to those, or similar, factors.

                    cun`T is sure being a big Brent in this thread. Next he's going to put pictures of his wife in a bikini on Facebook and call me a dyke for looking at them.

                    Comment


                    • The Hypnotoad
                      The Hypnotoad commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Don't be stupid (ohh wait, never mind lol), I haven't posted anything on Facebook since I stopped identifying as a liberal two weeks before the 2016 election. No, I think I'm going to wait until the banks start brazenly applying these sort of heavy handed tactics to your side of the aisle and simply shake my head in disgust at how loudly you lot will then be crying over a problem you effectively created in the first place via your inaction.


                      Then I'll say something like ''when it comes to things like Intellect and Insight, all your brains suffer from AIDS''... and you will know that it is true.


                      This is all assuming you haven't gone full MOR0N by then and started TRUMPing up charges against those with inconvenient truths that run counter to your idea of a fair thing of course.

                    • cw_
                      cw_ commented
                      Editing a comment

                  • #25
                    Originally posted by Madcow Klitzgasm View Post

                    That's your view of Alex Jones... you're entitled to it and you can tune out and never buy his super prepper cotton candy flavoured and dehydrated iodine with b complex vitamins and the tears of progressive rainbow warrior basement moles...

                    ...however, if online media and payment processing industries unite to prevent Alex Jones or anybody else their slant of politics disagrees with in order to silence and financially barricade, these companies are practicing censorship in concert on a grand scale which cannot be easily worked around due to the vast reach of Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Google's search engine, Paypal, and potentially other institutions such as Mastercard and Visa (if they haven't already done so).

                    Remember that Rosa Parks refused to sit at the back of the bus... there were public and private buses all operating at the same time. It didn't matter which kind of bus she was on when she said enough was enough. It was wrong. She started the discussion.
                    on a side note, it was because of Mastercard that patreon can't take payments for alex jones: they have bragged about doing this right in the MSM.

                    Comment


                    • The Hypnotoad
                      The Hypnotoad commented
                      Editing a comment
                      ''By any means necessary'' is a phrase that's been getting bandied about a fair bit in recent times, but most of those subscribing to that Machiavellian doctrine aren't equipped to defend against it. Case in point, this current SCOTUS appointment would have been more effectively blocked had liberals not been so quick to champion the democrats amendments that provided for such appointments being made via simple majority. It was considered a fair thing when it served their purpose, now it doesn't and they are all but impotent in the face of it and chucking tantrums left and right. The same can be said of the framework currently being used to deal with illegal immigrants gatecrashing their little party.


                      I wouldn't mind so much if it weren't for the double standard of ''we never meant for it to be used like this''. That just bugs me... welcoming a certain set of rules for one while expecting everyone else can get away with sheer bloody murder. Given that liberal thinking traditionally meant a kind of socialism where everyone might enjoy an equal footing, it disgusts me to see the current crop of them willfully setting in motion scenarios which I know full well will require a bunch of exceptions (effectively double standards) to be accepted to keep themselves from getting shitcanned later down the track under the same shit they're happy to see rnacted against their opponents now. It's already begun to happen too, yet these stupid pricks are burying their head in the sand while the ''well this person believes in the same things that this other person we agreed to whip into submission does''' lie is trotted out. Certain liberals are already finding that one out the hard way, meanwhile I'm getting clowns telling me I'm a socialist for advocating what is essentially egalitarianism and minarchism on the web?


                      Some people are just determined to be stupid I guess.

                  • #26
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                    • #27
                      https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/com...people_the_pc/

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                      • The Hypnotoad
                        The Hypnotoad commented
                        Editing a comment


                        Translated: nobody has a right to use these services. In point of fact, these services may be yanked from the masses if these services completely don't knuckle under the corporate whim of ''get rid of these people we don't like or we'll get rid of your business.''


                        Something those on the left are apparently happy with (for as long as it is serving their purpose and not working against it)... and they wonder why they are losing support.


                        It's why I cannot in all good conscience support them. They have helped create a society that kowtows to the whims of oligarchs and their current platforms are liberal in name only.

                    • #28



                      Related content for those of you who still don't get it.


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                      • #29


                        "He's not evil; he's just a bit rude." -Graeme

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                        • #30
                          Alex Jones' 15 page complaint against paypal.

                          https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-co...-COMPLAINT.pdf

                          From here: https://gizmodo.com/alex-jones-files...ein-1829455496

                          Comment


                          • Vitriol
                            Vitriol commented
                            Editing a comment
                            That can't be the original document... there aren't any tear stains.

                          • cw_
                            cw_ commented
                            Editing a comment
                            The tears are the subtext.
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